I was watching a very interesting documentary tonight on the History Channel, ‘The Bible Unearthed’, about the archaeological and historical evidence for events in the Bible. Some events are supported very clearly , other events not so much, for example where there seem to be discrepancies in the dating of an event.
Well, it got me thinking. One clear thing I took away with me after watching this, and something which I often wonder, how Christians can ignore, is that the Bible is a collection of writings, written down by many ‘men’, no matter where their inspiration came from. That is not to say that there is no basic truth or wisdom in what has been written. I believe there are good, valuable, universal teachings to be found in it applicable for both Christians and non-Christians alike.
We have to remember that as such, the writings would be subject to human error (debates still continue for example, over the orignal Aramaic word used for what has been translated as ‘virgin’ – whether or not the original meant ‘young maiden’ or ‘virgin’ in relation to Mary..) or even exaggeration to make a story have more impact on the audience. A point borne out in the documentary. Just as today the media, politicians, campaign groups, religious leaders, whoever wants us to support what they say, will to some degree resort to expressing their cause in such a way as to grab our attention and appeal to our emotions. Just as history books can be be biased, (even if the facts are correct in terms of dates and events), towards the historians’ perception.
So why is the Bible any exception? In reading it and trying to understand it I think it is important to remember this. That doesn’t mean we can’t explore it’s teachings and try and learn from it. Neither does it invalidate the fundamental message of Jesus which is repeated in all the gospels.
Consider also that these writings were compiled into one book, the Bible as we know it, by ‘men’. There are many other writings other than those 27 deemed suitable for inclusion by the ecclesaistical authorities. Why were some writings left out? Was there some message in those they did not want to include? What were the political and religious circumstances at the time? Would this have affected the choice made? It is easy to blindly say “The Bible is the word of God, and all other writings must be rejected”, but when you really look at the history of it’s compilation it doesn’t seem so clear. So why not explore these other writings I ask you? May they not have valuable insights or teachings too? It is certainly interesting to read some of the other gospels, and something I plan on discussing more in other posts, such as The gospel of Thomas in the Nag Hammadi library.
One question which I would ask,which arose out of watching the documentary, but which requires further exploration, is why as a Christian pay so much attention to the Old Testament? Shouldn’t a follower of Christ be concerned with his message…his message about how to live, and how to live with each other? So why even bother with the Old Testament other than as an interesting historical read? There seems to me to be so much that is extraneous which is part of the Christian faith today which Christians get caught up in, which detracts from Jesus’s core message, which divides the faith, and which alienates people from it who would be otherwise open to the message of love, self-knowledge, and compassion that Jesus preached.
I’m sure that is not what Christ wanted.
Yes, yes. I felt like you do, and in some regards still do. And that is because what I now believe is the misinterpretation of much of the bible by the church. Since the Enlightenment we want to read the bible like a science or history book rather than a book of stories that tell of God and man. Then, under attack by Evolutionary Theory many elements in the church demand what they call a literal exegesis along with the doctrine of biblical infallibility.
But get past all that crap and you can find great things in the OT, as well as some of those hard to swallow Pauline sermons. What helped me immensly are the books of Marcus Borg; “Reading the Bible Again for the First Time” and “The Jesus I Never Knew”. He helps put things into very clear context.
I agree that there is a flaggrant misinterpretation of the bible and the key women in it have had their roles downplayed ESPECIALLY Mary Magdeline whom I think was very close to Jesus.
I noticed that in all the three great monothesitic religions women are always downplayed and I think that has a lot to do with the mindset and culture of those times.
Hi Evangeline;
You hit the nail on the head with this one. There are a few things in the books that make up the bible that seem true, but the absence of women in its writings and compilation is disturbing.
For women are the mothers of us all. They are half of our creation. They should be heard equally.
But watching events with fundamentalist extremists in various parts of the world, they universally subjugate woman.
This is not of God, no matter what they say, think or believe.
There is nothing stopping women and men from putting together a real book of Life.
Regards
Robert
Dr. Young, in the preface to his literal translation of the holy bible said, “THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN.” (Emphasis by author)
I think he would agree with your thoughts here.
You folks seem to attack everyone and everything. You have much anger in you. It sounds like you think you could do a better job. You just can’t accept what is unless it is to your liking. If only you could hear yourselves. You sound so self-righteous and yet you accuse everyone else of this including the One Who created you. You are both so immature . You go around running down everything. Why don’t you role up your sleeves and get a life. There is so much good you can do with all this energy and knowledge that you have instead of just complaining about Christians who are just as human as you two are.
Franlin,
Evangeline’s posts don’t tend to attack anyone or anything. They do, however, ask serious questions that require serious answers from serious people.
It’s really too bad more people don’t ask the same kinds of questions.
Ron H
The following is a quote from Evangeline’s post. If you cannot see this as a ( politically correct) verbal attack, then put down whatever you are smoking and get some sleep.
There seems to me to be so much that is extraneous which is part of the Christian faith today which Christians get caught up in, which detracts from Jesus’s core message, which divides the faith, and which alienates people from it who would be otherwise open to the message of love, self-knowledge, and compassion that Jesus preached.
I’m sure that is not what Christ wanted.
Franlin – yes, I wrote that but I am not sure what it is you are trying to say. My words clearly state that I think there are aspects to the Christian religion as it is practised (or taught) that diverts people from the true message that I believe Jesus tried to give. Did you actually really read the whole post?
If you consider that a verbal attack then yes it is – an attack on those who would try to corrupt the good messages that there are in Christianity. Are you saying that no critisism of Christianity is justified? Look around you my friend at all those things that are done in the name of Jesus that are just plain wong – prejudice, hate, selfishness, greed…it happens, unless you are living in some sugar coated candy existence where you just never see that. You can even get plenty of examples in many blogs on this site of people experiencing these negative actions from fellow Christians. I have seen them and it saddens me that people who are searching for truth, spirituality are disollusioned because of it. Those negative actions and attitudes drive some away from the faith, and even ultimately from religion.
I have not attacked all Christians, and not everything, as you seem to think. As in any faith there are many who are truly wonderful and do admirable deeds in the name of their faith and belief. But I do not believe popular Christianity is all wholesome nor represents the truth. I think it has strayed from that, and will continue to do so as long as people refuse to take the time to really look at what they are being taught, to question, and to study.
Maybe it’s just more comfortable for some people to believe any little thing they are taught, without question. Remember, it is another human being that teaches these things – and how are you to know they are right? They have biases, and are not perfect, ergo they may make mistakes and misinterpretations, innocently or because they wish to interpret teachings to fit in with how they wish to view the world.
Many do not wish to question and find truth for themselves. But there are many who do, and it is not for you or I to say they are wrong in doing so.
I welcome comments here, to hear other people’s take on these types of topics. Through debate, argument, thought we can learn from each other. But if any words are so offensive to you, well you do not have to read them:). I’m sure there are plenty other blogs on this site that you will find in agreement to your beliefs, whatever they may be.
Best wishes to you.
Show me where you clearly state the following in your blog
” I think there are aspects to the Christian religion as it is practised (or taught) that diverts people from the true message that I believe Jesus tried to give.”
You are the one who needs to read your whole blog.
You are focusing all your time and energy on the few extremists who call themselves Christians and are doing harm instead of the millions of Christians who are blessing the world with their acts of kindness and love.
You often say things like quote ” I often wonder, how Christians can ignore, is that the Bible is a collection of writings, ”
which gives the impression all Christians. Just be more responsible and say some Christians-some some some–not Christians but some. It will then be an honest statement.
franlin,
I think there is a serious difference of opinion here.
“You are focusing all your time and energy on the few extremists who call themselves Christians and are doing harm instead of the millions of Christians who are blessing the world with their acts of kindness and love.”
I would argue that this site focuses time and energy on the millions of Christians that are misguided by centuries of dogma and propaganda, and pays very little attention to the few extremists that call themselves Christians. If anything, I’m sure evangelines would sincerely praise the few TRUE Christians with a solid understanding of their faith (both scholarly and spiritually).
Some some some (not Christians but some) people mistake
sincere honest criticism for mindless religious bashing. With patience and a little luck, I’m sure you’ll avoid that error. I wish you the best of luck on your present search for truth and reconciliation.
Ron H
“If anything, I’m sure evangelines would sincerely praise the few TRUE Christians with a solid understanding of their faith (both scholarly and spiritually).”
I get a kick out of people like you. You are so ” sure” of what you think. How can you be so sure that Evangelines would sincerely praise the few TRUE Christians? You are sure of nothing.
Also, I can imagine your description of what you think the few TRUE Christians are like.
If any of you really want to know God’s heart then you would truly study His Word, the Scriptures and learn of His Son Jesus Christ, instead of wasting your time with empty words defending each other pretending you care about the few TRUE Christians.
franlin,
You seem “sure” of what you think as well. It does little good for either of us to belittle the other on the basis of belief.
The suggestion that no one here studies the Bible (perhaps even daily) is what can only be described as a “gross assumption”.
A TRUE Christian is a living testament to their faith, demonstrating kindness, love, and understanding through every action by which it is possible.
I get a kick out of people like you, too. I’ve come to appreciate your open mind, your witty commentary, and your engaging discussion. I hope the sentiment is shared.
Ron H
I realize that I have not been very open minded in my responses, my commentary is not as witty as rude and as for my discussion, I have not been that engaging thus I am sorry for those of you I have offended. I perhaps have been too sensitive on these issues as I get hurt when I feel that people are running down me and others because of our take on the Scriptures. I should know better, that each of us has our own convictions and beliefs and if people believe they should set up a blog and speak out with their opinions about me and others such as myself, then they are entitled to do so. Evangelines is right, if I don’t like what I see, I can go elsewhere and that is what I have done. This discussion goes nowhere and I guess it never will because nobody changes their view over some argument. I t takes a lifetime of experiences for us to become who and what we are. So thank you and once again I am sorry that I was so rude
Have a great life and I mean that.
Hey, what the? How did this get so off topic?! Evangelines, you asked a legitimate question about why Christians pay so much attention to the Old Testament.
Later in your post you remark about the importance of historical context. In light of that comment, the importance for Christians to study the context out of which Christianity emerged becomes more clear. The earliest Christians were referred to as Nazarenes and as followers of The Way, and was considered a Jewish sect – not a discrete religion. Studying the old testament means studying our own heritage.
Of course it does occur that some Christians fail to see the importance of the Old Testament, not realizing that the God of the Jewish Covenant is the same God of the New Covenant. The same theme runs through both “books,” namely that God created us, we keep separating ourselves from the creation that He intended us to be, and that he promises to bring us back into right relationship with Him. (Christians believe that God already did this in the work of Jesus, the Christ.)
Back to historical context for a minute: yes, the times in which the various books of the Bible were written tended to be patriarchal times, but I would suggest that the insistance that women do not play a vital role is unsupportable on close examination. Check out the book of Luke, for example, and take a look at the people who are around to withness Jesus’ early days on earth, his early ministry, and who shows up at the tomb. There are women all over the place, and they are critical to Jesus’ life. They don’t have a lot of status, but that’s kind of the point – Jesus is bringing Good News to the poor, freedom to the oppressed, etc. Just something to chew on.
I like your blog. Blessings!
R
Thank you for your comment Robaigh.
I think some of my words have been a little misunderstood in this post. When I used the term ‘men’ I meant mankind, not men as distinct from women. The post was not a comment on women and their role in the church, although that would be a good topic for another post:) I do agree though with what you say on this topic.
Also one of the thoughts I had whilst writing the post was that yes, although scriptures of any kind should be seen in their historical context for to do otherwise can lead us to not evaluate or interpet them correctly, if you look at the things Jesus was supposed to have said, he was trying to sweep away some of the old, the way the society of the time (including the relgion) was behaving and give guidance to the people. There are many quotes one could give showing his criticism of how the religious leaders behaved, people behaved etc. It may be interesting from a historical point of view to study events in the Old Testament, and at times to gain insight to some of the context in the New Testament, and the God of both books may be the same. But isn’t a ‘Christian’ one who follows Christ ie his teachings? One could ask if what went before was so good why was it necessary for him to be teaching a message of love of God, love of man, compassion etc.? And isn’t the following of Christ what makes someone a Christian and not Jewish (all that went before Christ was of the Jewish faith).
Just some more questions from me:)
Evangeline, I believe the Old Testament is important because it records the story of how imperfect people live in relationship with God. Besides, the entire Bible is one story – God loving his creation and continually pursuing a relationship with his people. God’s original covenant with Abraham “Through your seed all nations will be blessed”, is fulfilled in the coming of Jesus, who then establishes a new covenant between God and his people based upon faith in him (Jesus). It’s not that the old covenant was bad, it was just the precursor to the new. Jesus set us free from the trappings of the old covenant through his death and resurrection. Christians are not necessarily Jewish, but we are children of Abraham. I have found that reading the Old Testament, especially the Psalms, can be quite helpful to me in my relationship to God.
check out http://www.sidroth.org
” Do not resist evil but overcome evil with good”